number 6451 on the window sill

[dmac]

Back to 6451. While researching something else entirely today, I found that Burlington Northern once owned a hog numbered BN 6451. Built in July 68 (SN 33788), it was first Great Northern GN 421. By 72, it was BN 6451. Sold to CNW in 84 and retired in 87, it was most active during it's run with Burlington.

1972_BN6451_Denver.jpg

1982_Jan_BN6451_Fridley_MN.jpg

When Amtrak revived the California Zephyr in the early 70s, BN was part of the system. Those passenger trains did not go through Keddie in Amtrak's version, but Burlington Northern hogs were often going through Keddie as part of the freight services. Therefore, the idea originally put forward by Not Sure (and researched by Cheshire) again has great legs. 6451 was a Burlington Northern engine at the time, and BN went through Keddie.

[dmac]

Several shots of Burlington Northern rigs on the Keddie Wye, and in the Keddie yard:

[Cheshire]

From: http://www.hobo.com/hobograpevine.html

"Oops's Birthday
Jaunt"
(8/12/2013)

hey fran,
its been a bit, i hope your doing well, i am. me
and chessieka just got back from my bday trip. so in the last month & 1/2 i
been running all around the west coast. i rode bn to bend, then back to kfalls,
a lot, was in eugene and Portland also down in roseville and farther south, but
the best was last week, me and my great friend heather rode outta dunsmuir to
kfalls, switched to bnsf, rode that down to keddie, got off and camped out for a
few days for my 36 bday. it was awesome. i never rode that route before so that
made it great. we made a camp under the wye, had a fire, went swimming, ate
crawfish (that she caught), listened to old train songs and just fu#[email protected]%ing loved
it. the 3 of my friends drove out to meet us and made it better... best bday in
a long time. anyways, just wanna say hi and let ya'll know that im still
kicking at 36. hope all is well and i'll talk to you soon...

oops... and chessieka
it may seem young but 24 yrs on these roads/rails its
been hell on me. gonna make it another 3 at least.

[Cheshire]

Anyone reading this thread might also want to check here for more re trains: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=820&hilit=train

[Cheshire]

Back to the paint

http://store.sirchie.com/SIRCHMARK-Evid ... 7C675.aspx

SIRCHMARK™ Evidence Marking Paint Kit provides law enforcement with an easy to use, highly visible marking tool set for investigators to identify key evidence or areas of interest at a crime scene or traffic accident. Use the included SIRCHMARK™ Evidence Marking Paint Dispenser to make quick and accurate markings. You can use the different colors to mark different types of evidence or locations. The paint is not permanent and will wear off naturally within 60 days of application.

http://www.forensicmag.com/articles/201 ... -personnel "Essential Items for Crime Scene Personnel":
Bindle paper.
Biohazard bags.
Bodily fluid collection kit (sterile swabs, distilled water, — optional presumptive tests [opens in pop-up window], and sterile packaging that allows the swabs to air dry).
Camera (plus memory cards, back up battery, remote flash, tripod and remote cord).
Evidence seals/tape.
Flashlight(s) with extra batteries.
Footwear casting materials.
Graph paper and pencils, small ruler or straight edge.
Latent print [opens in pop-up window] kit.
Measuring devices (e.g, measuring wheel, tape measures of varying lengths).
Multifunction utility tool.
Notebook.
Paper bags (various sizes).
Permanent markers.
Personal protective equipment (e.g., gloves, booties, hair covering, overalls and mask).
Placards.
Plastic resealable bags (various sizes)
Scales for photography.
Spray paint, chalk, etc.
Syringe/knife tubes.
Tweezers(disposable

[Magesta]

I am a new member of this forum, however, I have been following this case for years.
On the number 6451 found on Johnny's window sill, this is probably a reach....but I'll throw it out there anyway.
6451 = FDEA

[dmac]

Welcome aboard, Magesta. The telephone translation of 6451 into FDEA (Federal Drug Enforcement Administration) has been made before somewhere on the board (I can't presently find an example). It may be that someone emailed or PMd that idea to me, but I believe I first saw it in a post on the forum. This isn't the first thread where 6451 is discussed. It was meant to be the place to deposit ideas such as yours but, unfortunately, about 2 pages worth of posts are a pointless argument on the paint on the exterior doors and window of the basement utility room adjacent to Johnny's bedroom.

Many things bother me about the common possible conclusions: If it's an engine # scrawled by a railfan, why the window sill, and why were there no other engine numbers with it? And there has never been mention of Johnny being a railfan, although he'd only occupied the room for several months. If it is code for FDEA, why would anyone translate it to phone digits, much less jot it on the window sill? More than anything, where is the police report about 6451? Did anyone determine how old it was? Was it dust-covered and ancient?Was the writing matched to Johnny's hand? As usual, we have a tiny morsel and are left to wonder about its implications the bigger picture.

One last note- when considering the FDEA translation theory, you should also read this.

[Ava]

In considering the age Johnny was, this could simply be a combination number for some kind of lock.
School, bike, etc..

[Magesta]

I thought of that also. I always thought they had 3 numbers and so I dismissed this theory. However according to Wikipedia, they indicate these locks may have more than one digit.

The following was taken from Wikipedia
Typical padlocks are manufactured with generous tolerances, allowing two, three or even more digits of 'play' in the correct access sequence. Given a 60-number dial with three cams and three digits of play, the search space is reduced from 60 × 60 × 60 to 20 × 20 × 20, a 96% reduction in potential combinations.

[dmac]

maybe "#6451" is a ref to an evidence receipt number, not a figure scrawled on the sill.

[Magesta]

Ah evidence taken from Johnny's room possibly? Maybe finger prints on sill or blood and cops chicken scratched 6451 window sill.

[dmac]

I think my latest idea about what #6451 is complete bullocks, but I only mention it because it's a legit idea, and almost as plausible as the rest of our current theories. Not nearly, which is 'almost' to PCSO. Am I a bit snide and ugly? Yeah, this case always connects right back to assholes 'getting away with it' via govt assholes who ensure (depends) it happens. Am I bitter? Me? Aw, crap, ask me when I'm not so damned happy if you want an honest answer.

[Magesta]

Could be window size for curtains or plywood. 64x51

[Magesta]

Are you referring to J.S. senior? If so, there are a couple of things about him I thought odd from the beginning but hesitated to bring his name up.
The following reasons were why I thought of him.
1. He was gone chopping wood when the bodies were discovered and police arrived.
2. He could easily hide Tina in his truck on the way to chop wood.
3. It was rumored he liked little girls.
4. He knew the lay out of the cabin & Sue.
5. He may have had a thing for Tina and knew she was not going to be staying at his home that night.
6. Since he was up and gone before the bodies were discovered, he could have cleaned up and changed clothes in a remote area.
7. His family was religious [Johnny found with hands in prayer, Sue in humiliating pose, Dana's face turned toward Sue] He may have judged Sue as a parent.
8. His wife said he didn't sleep well the night of the murders.
9. He was a maintenance man, so had his own tools
10. He renovated Cabin 28 after the murders.

[dmac]

he supposedly found 6451

Excellent, and keep reading.

PLEASE look at why Marty was supposed to go chopping wood on Sunday Morning at 5am and missed it? Who is lying? Who said that appointment ever existed?

I have big problems elsewhere. Loon and Mamma Meeks accounts are INTEGRAL to them being guiltless, yet they are both filled with lies and, decades later, inconsistencies fuck both the MMB and Meeks scenarios.

Put them side by side and who looks like a guilty cunt? Why does Dale Wade Meeks get no play in this idiocracy?

[Magesta]

When you look at the bigger picture, this whole thing was steered by Loon and the Meeks all the information was coming from them. They also made sure they got on that video to continue to steer the investigation. I thought mamma Meeks comments at the grave site were odd too, when she was talking about how this puts closure to this. No it didn't ! It was like she was trying to put this case to bed. It's unsolved, how is there closure? There was something about her body language and the drilling of the point that Mardy had to go to Keddie there was something he had to finish. I just felt I was being spoon fed. They were right there the morning of the murders moving Loon out right under the cops noses.

[Magesta]

it was mamma Meeks that said her exhusband was supposed to meet Mardy to cut wood that morning and when he got out there he was burning leaves and shoes. Loon later stated she didn't think he burned shoes, when she suddenly decided that Mardy didn't do it after his death.
Seems like a lot of people were using the excuse of cutting wood that day. Did they all cut wood together at one point? Meeks, Seabolts, Tony the Greek, Mardy, Dee ? That seems to be a common alibi theme.

[dmac]

Mamma Meeks recently said Sue was at the Meeks house all Saturday til 6 pm cuz the clock was EXACTLY at 6pm when Sue left. Mamma Meeks is either insane or full of shit. Considering she's the only self-appointed and publicly debunked "best friend" to Sue, and she ignored all Sue's surviving family after the murders--- preferring to take in and care for the killers--- what do you make of any of Mamma's stories?

Who has stories which line up with Mamma Meeks, other than all the other Meeks family?

Loonibi
Marilyn Smartt
Sheila Sharp
Dee Jay Lake
anyone else?

Richard Meeks' version of 4/11 does NOT line up with Momma or Sheila. Look at the timelines and he's consistent, so are all the others he names (Bazes, etc)- Sheila is WAY OFF. Miles off. Both PCSO timelines show completely different stories from Sheila, yet only slight variations in Richard's account. Can't rule out that PCSO fudged their timelines: intentionally is obvious, 'accidentally' is not.

Some lies are right there. I believe if you ignore everything from Richard's account, then you ignore everything from Sheila's bullshit version of 4-11, you'll see what's left. Who is left to confirm Sheila's version of 4/11? Play that little logic game and see what you come up with.

I think Timeline Z may also help, except there are few original documents regarding Richard, much less his account at the time which Timelines A & B are supposedly derived from, so Z (incomplete as it is) only gives other variations of 4/11.

I wish I had time to concentrate on one project and complete it! Z would be my first choice, as it's the most damning timeline, completely mockling the stupidity of PCSO and their own fake timelines. If you take original files and don't misquote them in a timeline, it's a completely different picture than what bad cops devised.

[DB92]

Like everything else in this screwed up case we have so little to go by LE regarding #6451, other than the fact it was there, this piece of potentialy vital information will remain a source of speculation with each forum member deriving their own opinions and coming to their own conclusions.

So Dmac , or anyone else, is it fact BN 6451 did indeed run through Keddie in '81 ? Or have i picked that up wrong. I have tried to get information on this myself but other that how much engine parts for this particular engine cost and details of the train itself i have came up with nothing. The train explanation would make the most sense imo, it just makes more sense to me scrawling a train number into the wood of the window sill, where sue probably wouldnt notice & question, than something like a phone number or date but nothing can be discounted, process of elimination will atleast discount possible sources and narrow the search. Would it be possible for someone in the area to check the phone number theory out in more detail, using '81 area codes in other places like Q, EQ, Twain ect.. I would if i knew how (i live in uk and getting this kind of stuff is difficult, if someone can point me in the right direction i would be more than willing though). Obviously trying to obtain these kind of details is incredibily time consuming and could render utterly pointless but in some cases the smallest details can reveal the biggest hits. In a 30+ year old homicide case nothing can be discounted meaningless until fact renders it pointless imo.

[dmac]

Yes, it's entirely feasible BN 6451 ran through Keddie during the era prior to the murders, as outlined here.

Still, why would 6451 be written, nothing else? Wouldn't a railfan- and there is nothing to suggest any of the Sharps were- designate which line, as we've had to in discussing 6451 as a possible hog number? BN 6451 scrawled down makes much more sense if it has anything to do with rails. Also, if the sill was a railfan's notebook, why no more numbers? I'm no trainspotter, but don't they right down dates and times when they see a hog or car they're interested in? Again, how old did the writing appear? Was it recent or not? Given the time of year and the location of the window, those sills have a habit of quickly collecting damp and dirt- inside and out. Condensation and dirt in the colder months rack up quickly, especially on leaky old windows, which those surely were.

Also, Johnny's bedroom windows were covered with cardboard on Sunday morning- just as the windows in the girls' BR apparently were to keep out cold. Maybe they were taped into place, maybe they were easily removed during the daylight hours and only used at night, but the cardboard found in the girls' room, and no cardboard on the girls' windows in CS photos, tells me they could be removed easily.

As for finding 6451 phone numbers, one would have to locate relevant phone books from 79-82 and hope like hell they can find the number (1) published rather than ex-directory; (2) listed to a name that strikes fear into our very bones.