Sue's Body Was Placed Where She Was Found

facts surrounding the Keddie Murders, for beginners and up

Sue's Body Was Placed Where She Was Found

Postby dmac » Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:39 pm

Sue is the only victim found in Cabin 28 with clearly defensive wounds. Also, Sue left footprints as she walked through bloody patches on the floor from where other victims bled out. This indicates she was mobile after other victim(s) had already been wounded so badly they had bled out and been moved to other locations, leaving blood spots accessible for her to walk through. Also, all the bloody footprints I've found are near the front of the cabin, closer to the front door than where Johnny was left. All prints I've seen- and, believe me, I've meticulously studied the photos- are not only in that area but are in the direction of that front wall. None of the prints lead back to where she was found.

Then there's this:

Image

The round chalk-line at the bottom right with the card inside is where Sue's head was. She was found laying on her right side, almost fully on her back, hands pulled tight to her waist by a cord that was tied around her wrists and then to her ankles, her legs bent due to the tension of the cord.

Note the two clean tube socks. The card below the bloodstain to the left of the socks is where Sue's left side/back was, and Sue was not wounded in her back. The two socks rest atop blood stains, yet are not noticeably bloody themselves. And Sue, who was not wounded in the back at all, was resting on top of the socks.

Sue was stabbed several times in the chest, including a cut to the aorta, yet there is no blood spots nearby corresponding to these wounds. The only blood pattern that matches her body position is the stab wound that went through her larynx and through to her spine. No other blood patterns line up with Sue's wounds as she was found.

    Sue walked through patches on the ground where others had bled out and then been moved.

    There are no indications she walked in the direction she was found the following morning.

    There are multiple blood patterns and spots on the floor not accounted for by where bodies were found, and Sue was found on stains she could not have made in the position she was found.

    Likewise, there are no bloodstains around Sue where there should be, other than the neck wound mentioned.

SUE WAS STABBED IN THE CHEST- AND AORTA- SOMEWHERE OTHER THAN WHERE SHE WAS FOUND. SHE WAS THEN TRUSSED WITH WIRE / PLACED WHERE SHE WAS FOUND, AND EVENTUALLY MOVED ONTO HER SIDE & COVERED WITH SHEET AND BLANKET.


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Re: Sue's Body Was Placed Where She Was Found

Postby TREELAND » Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:34 pm

Maybe the socks were caught up in or stuck on the sheet covering Sue's body by static cling then fell off when the sheet was removed and landed on the floor. This is just a thought because they also look like they could have been purposly placed there by hand....posed.
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Re: Sue's Body Was Placed Where She Was Found

Postby dmac » Wed Feb 13, 2013 5:19 pm

Sue's bloody, battered body was placed where found: on top of carpeting where the blood stains don't match her wounds. Between the bloody body and bloody carpet were clean, white tube socks. The room was scattered with shoes and what appears to be laundry that had been washed prior to the murders. Also, static cling doesn't explain how socks get under a body that was on the floor before the blanket was used to hide it.

Not that this is the place for it, but why not? Better here than to forget to bring it up elsewhere:

With all that laundry and those clean socks laying around, B&M easily could (and SHOULD) have used them to bind all four of the victims, hand and foot. I have tube socks shorter than those under Sue, still ample in length and strength to bind legs together, exponentially more secure than the meager med tape used. Bo and Marty were so proud of their game plan that they stuck with using all those rolls of med tape brought along in the kill kit. A big part of the staging was meant to give the illusion the murders were a flash-in-the-pan, crazy and unfortunate escalation. It's ironic that staging the crime scene to make the murders APPEAR unplanned is undone by the very med tape they brought with them. At least for me, it was thefirst thing I could unravel and use to prove premeditation.

Dumb bastards. It just goes to show how haphazard and stupid the staging was: they weren't even bright enough to use weapons found in the house until it was a total afterthought, just a part of the staging. It certainly implies the hammer and knives and table leg were all used as postmortem staging, not as part of the crime. Even the binding with the cords cut from lamps and such were clearly postmortem. Dumb bastards.

Name one thing found in the house that WAS clearly used during the murders, other than perhaps the bra and bandana used as part of Sue's gag. Even THAT is iffy, now.
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Re: Sue's Body Was Placed Where She Was Found

Postby BUTTERFLYVALLEY1 » Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:25 pm

I thought Sue had a blue bandana stuffed in her mouth and then was taped; then she had panties tied so tight it cracked her teeth and now you say a bra was used too? She had to have fought like a wildcat for her family...God love her. She would have had a lot of stuff under her nails and we are to believe none of it was useful? The more I read the more unbelievable this becomes. This just shouts cover-up from the get go. Something is so wrong here, very very wrong.

I have read enough about the VIDOCQ Society to know what they can do with a cold case when given a chance. They do not need a lot to go on and still they are awesom. The PCSO must really fear the truth so much that they are cowards to not invite these people into this case. Sad and terribly pathetic on their part.

Feel free to move any of my posts if they are in the wrong place or erase them if they are not pertinent. :have_a_nice_day:
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Re: Sue's Body Was Placed Where She Was Found

Postby TREELAND » Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:11 am

The bindings were tied so tight Sue's teeth protruded over them, they did not break her teeth. The cause of her broken teeth was from blunt force impact, this has always bothered me because I wondered if she was hit in the mouth with the hammer which seems hideous and horrible. So sad how un-investigated this case was at the time and how Marty and Bo were allowed to leave the area so soon. Can see in the photos of the crime scene that Sue was placed where she was and that the blood spots don't match up apparently to hide what actually happened where and when the violence occured, just like Johnny being moved.
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Re: Sue's Body Was Placed Where She Was Found

Postby 7Scarlet » Sat Feb 16, 2013 6:25 am

If most of the footprints were near the front door, and most of the blood on the balls of her feet as if she were on tiptoes, this could very well mean that Sue was trying to escape, tiptoeing through blood to get to the front door, where she was caught by one of the killers and brutalized all over again. It's possible they believed her to be dead to begin with, then when it was found she was not, it began all over again.

This also may explain why the victims were "remurdered". After Sue's near escape, the killers, once again enraged and full of kill adrenaline, decided it best to go overkill, to make sure no one was going to get up again and head for that door.

It's too bad we don't know exactly whose blood was on the bottom of her feet.
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Re: Sue's Body Was Placed Where She Was Found

Postby TREELAND » Sat Feb 16, 2013 7:48 am

Good point 7Scarlet but I think the "overkill' was going to happen regardless if Sue had tried to escape or not. Knowing whose blood she stepped in would be helpful. Personally think it was Johnny's, if it was Sue's there would have been more blood visible on her legs or even the top of her feet and more blood in a scattered drops pattern on the floor, if let say she was bleeding profusely while struggling with one or more persons.
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Re: Sue's Body Was Placed Where She Was Found

Postby 7Scarlet » Sat Feb 16, 2013 7:57 am

I agree, they were going to be especially cruel to begin with, but I think something like this may have caused them to go around and re-attack people who were already dead.

I hate these people so much.
It's unbelievable sometimes that monsters capable of this kind of horror are people just like us.
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Re: Sue's Body Was Placed Where She Was Found

Postby dmac » Sat Feb 16, 2013 10:12 am

Sue was already bound, and significant damage was done in order for her to be bloodying her feet in POOLS of blood. And, most likely, the pool of blood was exposed because whomever bled there was already moved elsewhere. This indicates the blood on her feet came midway through the carnage, so she had probably already sustained significant damage herself. One thing is certain: she was already bound with tape, since no blood was ever found under tape.

It's more believable, given the above circumstances I pointed out, that Sue was being moved around the room, in some state of consciousness, assisted by the killer(s). Bodies were being moved around a lot that night, bleeding out in several locations on the carpet- mainly from head trauma. Where the majority of blood is in the room (under and around the cushion) indicates people were systematically being taken there to be brutalized. Sue was still alive, being moved around until it was her turn again.

If she had been trying to get anywhere, she would have run to the door and the footprints would have been full, not tiptoes. Why would someone in bare feet try to tiptoe on carpet to sneak away from attackers? Nope. Also, the way the prints are kind of staggered a few inches apart, in different directions leading to the corner (not the door)? That also tells me she was being controlled by another person and was simply partially supporting her weight. Remember, Sue was 5 even while the killers were at least half a foot taller. B's ID says he was 5'10" on a good day, but his photo from the era places him closer to 5'6" against the door that's behind him.

The attacks began in the bedroom, and both Sue and Tina were overpowered and controlled quickly- despite some blood spillage on sheets/blankets/cardboard, etc. Much of what Justin says in some of his statements actually pans out as truthful, but he physically could not have seen Tina in the kitchen as he claimed, and I tend to believe Tina was killed (Marty claimed 'incapacitated' in his interview, and that can mean 'dead', too) alongside everyone else that night, and her body removed.
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Re: Sue's Body Was Placed Where She Was Found

Postby 7Scarlet » Sun Feb 17, 2013 8:36 pm

Yeah, you're right, the footprint placement doesn't match what I said might've happened.

Poor Sue.
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Re: Sue's Body Was Placed Where She Was Found

Postby TTodd » Tue May 19, 2020 7:33 pm

I feel like Sue's condition, (panties stuffed in her mouth, hog tied, etc.) made this crime extremely personal toward her. Is it possible that Tina was the person who called her father the month's prior to the murders and asked him to come pick her up? Maybe that's why it seemed she was dressed and ready to go. Jim Sharp would have been irate knowing Tina had been molested and Shiela ended up pregnant all under Sue'a care. Abusers and narcissist won't take responsibility for their wrong doing but will quickly blame anyone else, especially the mother that left him. Of course, Johnny would have come to the rescue and Tina may have tried to run out of guilt of starting the situation. (Just a thought and alternative scenario.)
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Re: Sue's Body Was Placed Where She Was Found

Postby dmac » Wed May 20, 2020 1:08 am

What case are you reading about?!

Tina was asleep in bed. Her father had raped her and Sheila for years. James gave not one fuck for his 'family', other than to have the kids around to rape.

Holy shit, worst post I've read, literally, in years.
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Re: Sue's Body Was Placed Where She Was Found

Postby leenie963 » Wed May 20, 2020 4:43 am

TTodd wrote:I feel like Sue's condition, (panties stuffed in her mouth, hog tied, etc.) made this crime extremely personal toward her. Is it possible that Tina was the person who called her father the month's prior to the murders and asked him to come pick her up? Maybe that's why it seemed she was dressed and ready to go. Jim Sharp would have been irate knowing Tina had been molested and Shiela ended up pregnant all under Sue'a care. Abusers and narcissist won't take responsibility for their wrong doing but will quickly blame anyone else, especially the mother that left him. Of course, Johnny would have come to the rescue and Tina may have tried to run out of guilt of starting the situation. (Just a thought and alternative scenario.)



No doubt this was directed towards Sue, she was the target. That is a given by not only the horrible wounds she suffered but the humiliating way her body was positioned after death. As for the Tina scenario you are thinking about, I haven't come across any Sharp child calling their abusive father to pick them up, let alone your idea Tina was guilty of anything besides being born into one fucked up family/situation. If you read this on this forum, could you please post the link so I can read up on that? Thanks, I'd appreciate it!
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Re: Sue's Body Was Placed Where She Was Found

Postby TTodd » Thu May 21, 2020 1:31 am

So forgive me if I'm so out of order, If you have read anything about children of abuse, you may know they often have a love/hate relationship with the abusive parent. I've read and heard many times Tina was her father's favorite, At this time, Sheila had just come home from having her baby and I read Tina was being somewhat neglected. (Whether this was due to Sheila's situation, Sue being super busy, whatever.) I also read that someone, (one of the children), called Jim in the months before the murders. I was thinking Tina, in a strange way, she missed being the center of attention and her father. Maybe she called her father and he decided to come and get Tina. Of course Sue would never let this happen, but maybe Tina didn't realize how the situation would get so out of control. (Thus guilt for even calling in the first place.) I haven't been able to find Jim Sharp's actually alibi for the weekend. Justin statement saying the men were dressed alike and wearing a certain type if boot and glasses brought 'military' to mind, Most of all, having Sue tied and humiliated the way she was just implies obviously Sue was the target to me. It seems a little odd to me that Marty would do that to Sue even if he felt rejected. I can imagine Marilyn wanting her to be staged this way though especially if she did find out that Marty and Sue were involved. (Thanks for your patience. I'm not use to commenting, just reading.)
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Re: Sue's Body Was Placed Where She Was Found

Postby leenie963 » Thu May 21, 2020 7:26 am

TTodd wrote:So forgive me if I'm so out of order, If you have read anything about children of abuse, you may know they often have a love/hate relationship with the abusive parent. I've read and heard many times Tina was her father's favorite, At this time, Sheila had just come home from having her baby and I read Tina was being somewhat neglected. (Whether this was due to Sheila's situation, Sue being super busy, whatever.) I also read that someone, (one of the children), called Jim in the months before the murders. I was thinking Tina, in a strange way, she missed being the center of attention and her father. Maybe she called her father and he decided to come and get Tina. Of course Sue would never let this happen, but maybe Tina didn't realize how the situation would get so out of control. (Thus guilt for even calling in the first place.) I haven't been able to find Jim Sharp's actually alibi for the weekend. Justin statement saying the men were dressed alike and wearing a certain type if boot and glasses brought 'military' to mind, Most of all, having Sue tied and humiliated the way she was just implies obviously Sue was the target to me. It seems a little odd to me that Marty would do that to Sue even if he felt rejected. I can imagine Marilyn wanting her to be staged this way though especially if she did find out that Marty and Sue were involved. (Thanks for your patience. I'm not use to commenting, just reading.)


I've lived abuse as a child as many have and yes, I understand the need for a parents love even when their belt produced so many welts you literally couldn't sit for week. I can' speak for others but I can tell you this: not once did I ever miss that son of a bitch, let alone call him for a kind word; even from the ripe old age of 12. You may have read about a phone call here: http://keddie28.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=407&p=5498&hilit=jim+sharpe#p5498 James Sharp's alibi was verified via his Navy command if memory serves. Maybe this will help: http://keddie28.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1605&p=20229&hilit=navy#p20229

Don't underestimate the evil men do, in particular at the behest of a woman. And no worries about your post, we all start somewhere.

Edit: fixed url
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