Okay Wait

[CarolynS2012]

Sorry if this really doesn't belong in this thread, but I am confused. Now, keep in mind I haven't seen Part 2 of the documentary yet. If Marty and Bo confessed to this crime, why weren't they arrested? Why is the case still considered unsolved. Does LE think maybe they just made it up? What was the motive? I know people stated something about Tina being pregnant, but I find that really doesn't fit the burtality of this crime. Nor does the fact Sue turned Bo down for a date. I am confused!

[Chichibcc]

Personally, I think that PCSO wasn't (and still isn't) interested in seeing this case solved, because to solve it would mean members of the department revealing their own "skeletons in the closet," so to speak. There's a possibility that Marty and Sheriff Doug Thomas were "buddies," which hasn't been confirmed-that's what Marty told the therapist whom he made the confession to.

In addition, while there were fingerprints and other physical evidence collected from C28, none of it was strong enough to really build a case against the two, which would've meant, at best, a circumstantial case for the county prosecutor. Of course, DNA testing wasn't available in 1981, so that wasn't an option. In addition, any remaining samples that might've been eligible for testing today were compromised when a refrigerator containing some of the evidence was left unplugged for a time. There are also items, such as the tape the anonymous call about Tina's remains was recorded on, and Justin's shoes, which he reportedly wore through the crime scene, that have inexplicably disappeared.

Not helping matters, PCSO has turned down offers for help from places such as the highly-regarded VIDOCQ Society and "America's Most Wanted," with a PCSO member having threatened to sabotage the documentary, so I really think the department plays a HUGE role in why this case is still unsolved, 31 years later. They've really done a lot less than they could have otherwise, imo, and their actions (or lack thereof, actually) just come across as shady to me.

As far as the motive is concerned, that's anyone's guess. In addition to the ones you pointed out, some believe the crime had to do with stolen drugs, while it's also been speculated that maybe Marty wanted to "get back" at Sue because he believed she was trying to get Marilyn to leave him (had I been Sue, I know I certainly would have, for the sake of Marilyn's kids, at least). Even now, after over a year of learning about the case, I'm not sure what to believe.

[krazykat]

Hard to take a confession seriously that comes from a professional con artist trying to get SSI disability for PTSD and there's no solid evidence or a believable motive.

After seeing the crime scene photo's just released and the more I read I'm inclined to go back to my original interest in this case as it being a serial by a sexual sadist.

[CarolynS2012]

Thanks Chichibcc! I appreciate that! I guess I will have a better understanding once I watch part 2. I just feel like even a person off his nut wouldn't have that much rage over someone just telling his wife to leave him. Most people laugh at stuff like that. Stolen drugs? Maybe, depending on how much they were worth. A pregnancy of a minor? Maybe, but back in the day you got a slap on the wrist for that stuff. The brutality of it all is what gets me. I mean, this wasn't just a murder, this was a massacre and children were involved and an innocent woman who was doing nothing but trying to raise her kids. NOTHING stands out about any of these people. Sure, there are rumors, but that goes without saying. I took the stuff that Seabolt lady said with a grain of salt. To me she just seemed like a judgmental person who probably had just a tinge of jealousy that Sue was prettier and probably more well-like than she was. That's human nature though.

[dmac]

A lot of the story has been hidden for so many years that, 30 years on, we're just beginning to see key players and motives re-emerge from the strata of lies. Keep chipping away at that, and key factors are clearly visible:

Marty Smartt was in the cabin, left evidence behind which include fingerprints on a bloody glass that police, to this day, refuse to talk about. He confessed to the murders (in part, without taking full blame and without naming others), and lied poorly to Crim and Bradley and PCSO. He was arrested in the ensuing days, after going crazy, where he has a meltdown in the jail, threatening Wade. Enough cause to arrest him? Hell yes, many times over. What did PCSO / DOJ do? Put him on a bus to Klamath where he could meet up with his lover...

Bo Boubede. Lied to DOJ so poorly that DOJ is clearly not interested in solving the crime. His lies have been debunked so many ways by so many people, and he's lying about knowing the victim and being there that night. He was there. Drug dealer, lowlife con artist scumbag who has a long history of preferential treatment from cops. He didn't belong in Keddie, so why was he there? Even the family of Bo involved here agree he could only have been at the Reno VA mental ward as a ruse to 'meet someone'. Was involved with Marty in schemes and scams, and his alibi for that night was a poor amalgamation of lies put together by him, Marty, and...

Marilyn Smartt. Always keen to throw her men under the bus to misdirect blame and guilt from herself, this sociopathic whore was probably already banging Wade Meeks. She lied about where she was that night, she lied about when she went to the bar. Justin said she was in Cabin 28 that night, and many (myself included) figured that out long before we heard Justin had said it.

PCSO / DOJ ignored the obvious lies that would have led any valid cop to arresting at least Bo and Marty, and instead threw the investigation into a ditch, where it remains today.

As for motive... many people want motive badly. I think all three of the above were petty, bat-crazy losers, and each a sociopath. Bo, despite family claims otherwise, had no qualms about violence towards innocent people. Marty wanted to: kill his brother, blow up his parents' house, run over Loon and the kids, kill Dee with a hatchet. He threatened Loon with a shotgun, threw knives at the boys, etc etc etc. You want a clear, logical, and worthy motive from him? Good luck on that. And Loon? No known history of violence, but she loves her pedophiles, and she never gave a crap about her own kids, and she was the first person to point fingers at all others, especially if it meant getting out from under a problem and into some new guy's bed.

I'd like a solid motive, too, but that's a tall glass to fill. Where do we set a bar that makes killing four innocent people 'logical'? It's like a dog chasing a car. I do, however, see some things coming into focus that could greatly increase our understanding of the case and the motive, and I mean of the original murders, not the PCSO/DOJ coverup. What I can say now is others were likely involved, and not just Dee Lake and Justin.

But, still, I think the question is why are people looking for a logical "motive" for such a senseless, irrational crime, much less expecting to find one from these sociopathic scumbags, who were clearly involved?

[krazykat]

But, still, I think the question is why are people looking for a logical "motive" for such a senseless, irrational crime, much less expecting to find one from these sociopathic scumbags, who were clearly involved?

I can't speak for anyone else but I believe there was a motive. Why? Because of the good work you have done to prove the lies, prove the staging, prove the cover up.

It's a simple as that for me. If there was premeditation, then there was a motive, if the bodies were staged, then they were staged for a reason. We may not understand it but there was one. The Manson family was out there, crazy as can be, and they had an agenda. It was nuts but they did have it.

So I believe there is one in this case and if it's found it will solve the case.

[CarolynS2012]

Oh, there was a motive. I am sure of it. Unless there was some people just wandering around Keddie and they decided for no good reason to go massacre an innocent family, there was a motive.

[AUFAN]

I'm not sure if this goes here and it has probably been discussed before anyway...feel free to move/delete.

I think the motive was sexual assault/rape. Either John and Dana walked in on the murderers attempting to rape Sue OR M & B had their sights set on Tina the entire time and everyone else was in their way so they were killed. Why else would they take Tina? It doesn't make any sense to take her away from the scene (if the motive was only murder), considering it would have been easier and less risky to kill her with the others. I do think Marilyn was in the car/yard waiting for one of them to bring Tina out of the house to her. Marilyn then kept Tina occupied while M & B killed Sue, John and Dana.
I do have a question..didn't either Marty or Bo pass a lie detector test? Not saying it necessary proves anything sense these tests are not fail proof, but I was just wondering if I imagined reading that somewhere.
The more I ponder on these murders, the more disturbed I become. Just to think there were 3 other children in the very next room while all of this was taking place is crazy, to say the least. There is no way they didn't wake up. Justin knows everything and more than likely watched and maybe even participated in these murders. Seriously disturbing...

[azucena]

AUFAN

you can read my theory of the motive in the thread possibility of Tina being pregnant. I lean to thinking that was the reason she was removed from the cabin, because that evidence would have been discovered

[AUFAN]

Thanks for the info. I had no idea Justin took a lie detector test also. I will have to read that.
It was all speculation that Tina was preg. right? Do we know when and from whom that rumor started? There so much rumor and misinformation regarding this case that it is hard to keep the facts in line.

[Chichibcc]

It was all speculation that Tina was preg. right? Do we know when and from whom that rumor started?

In part 2 of the documentary, Josh stated that this info was revealed by someone from the Plumas County Health Department, but it also could've originated by way of people just gossiping, like all the other rumors.

Why else would they take Tina? It doesn't make any sense to take her away from the scene (if the motive was only murder), considering it would have been easier and less risky to kill her with the others.

Perhaps they took Tina from the as a way of trying to hide the true motive-whatever that might have been.

[IPO]

Psychopaths easily pass lie detector tests because they have a skewed sense of right and wrong. They are masters of deception and can lie without batting an eyelid.

[justice17]

810427-????m (week of) 7th meeting with Reno therapist.Therapist advised Marty he needs to turn himself in, and Marty just smiled. Asked again about the polygraph, Marty said "I beat it. Those things are easy to beat. I was lying, and they let me go!"


Serial killer

These people are not all geniuses, and they are not inherently particularly effective at anything other than being ruthless. Their high levels of stress tolerance, or inability to feel their stress and process it, let them fool lie detectors, as well as most of us. To them, [b]lying is such a small occurrence that it wouldn’t necessarily cause a real spike in their heart rate or pulse.[/b]

source: http://www.exposingtruth.com/psychopath ... z3fEXRJ1lo

[dmac]

check out the DOJ scum who did all the lie detector tests. SAM LISTER= DOJ TOP ASSHOLE. He's a complete fraud who screwed up the test on the Zodiac suspect, completely ignoring Allen was on all kinds of mind-altering, state-enforced meds. Lister passed Allen, and decided he was full of truthiness.

After screwing up the Zodiac test(I know some about Zodiac, but not why DOJ would want to use Lister), he rose to top position at DOJ, in charge of the entire lie detection squad of frauds. Like pond scum, he broke from the bottom and rose directly to top position.

As top of DOJ fraud science, Sam Liar Lister HIMSELF conducted ALL of these worthless 'lie detection' tests in the Keddie case. Top fake pig there to fake results! YEAH! Check them out!

Everyone but the family dog was wired to top DOJ pig Lister's device for the routine bullshit TRUTH TEST, Yet the cartoon killers that were drawn as "suspects" come from a moronic sheriff who was BFF with one killer... and a guy with a crayon? Can I get a group "f**k this $^it!"?

The science behind lie detection tests proves fraud, like a carny dime show. Even the CIA and FBI admit they don't trust lie detection tests, but use them only to scare or fix witnesses and cases. REALITY CHECK= THE LIE DETECTOR IS FRAUD.

Look up Sam Lister on this site, then on the internet, before you put a bit of trust behind those bullshit tests.

SAM LISTER, TOP DOJ ASSHOLE. He's the DOJ scumbag who faked the results from non-existent science. Grasp that.

Oh, yeah, don't forget Sam is the guy completely complicit in jail snitches and how his Scientology-worthless "lie detectors" are used to manipulate cases. When it became obvious he was involved in fraudulent cases where innocent people were sent to prison, Sam denied all knowledge and told many working under him to deny it.

How can you demand someone deny knowing something, unless they knew it?

SAM LISTER. DOJ. KEDDIE. DUH.

[Cheshire]

f**k this $^it!

[Daltonbuck]

I think the fact that Tina was the only one removed from the property says 2 things.

One she was alive when they took her. Which means they allowed her to live at least for a time for SOME reason.

Two. She was probably taken for the purposes of sexual a assault of some kind. Why else take her?

I don't think that that means these crimes were committed for the sole purpose of taking Tina.

[justice17]

I think the fact that Tina was the only one removed from the property says 2 things.

One she was alive when they took her. Which means they allowed her to live at least for a time for SOME reason.

Two. She was probably taken for the purposes of sexual a assault of some kind. Why else take her?

I don't think that that means these crimes were committed for the sole purpose of taking Tina.

IMHO...
I think Tina was dead before she left the cabin on that night. Why risk taking her somewhere else for a sexual assault? The killers were very comfortable and spent hours at the crime scene.

Remember Marty even mentions in his statement to LE, "Tina was the Father's favorite child". How would he even know this information?

It is so very sad, but I think the sickos killed her, and they took her body,just to confuse the investigation. They probably thought Mr. Sharp would be the leading suspect anyway.

[kmik]

I honestly just can't see that Tina was taken to confuse an investigation. Whoever committed these murders surely did not do it while worrying about some investigation (that never really got off the ground to begin with). This does not appear to be a well thought out crime. If they took Tina trying to "throw off" the investigation then certainly they would have killed EVERYBODY in Cabin 28. Maybe someone in Cabin 28 was a threat to somebody for some reason - and they were killed. I do feel that she was dead or near dead when taken from the cabin. Drugs and sex are really all that was going on around Keddie.

[justice17]

I honestly just can't see that Tina was taken to confuse an investigation. Whoever committed these murders surely did not do it while worrying about some investigation (that never really got off the ground to begin with). This does not appear to be a well thought out crime. If they took Tina trying to "throw off" the investigation then certainly they would have killed EVERYBODY in Cabin 28. Maybe someone in Cabin 28 was a threat to somebody for some reason - and they were killed. I do feel that she was dead or near dead when taken from the cabin. Drugs and sex are really all that was going on around Keddie.

If Tina was dead before they left the cabin, why would they even bother to take her?

The only two reasons to take her are:
1. To throw off the Investigation
2. Her body held "DNA evidence

Can you think of any other reason?

[kmik]

Justice, I don't know why Tina was taken. When I look at this the whole thing screams "Why take Tina "? I just don't believe the murder/murders had the foresight when this all went down to worry about an investigation. If Marty was involved in this and he wanted to throw off the investigation then he should have worked harder on his responses during his statement to police - too many trip ups and slip ups (which apparently were completely ignored). So I guess he never really had to worry about any investigation at all and maybe he knew this.